The Successful Coach

Thomas Gelmi

What did you manage to do well today? What’s your contribution? What are your goals or intentions?

The key to success is the ability to connect with others and build genuine relationships. These relationships begin within yourself. Build a good balance inside yourself in order to connect with others.

We must set clear goals and intentions. Always remind yourself of the things you want to change without forgetting your intentions.

Accept that there are limitations, refocus your attention on what you can accomplish, and keep loving what you do.

In this episode, get to know more about Thomas Gelmi. He’s an expert in personal and interpersonal competence and creates value for his clients as an executive coach, facilitator, and sparring partner.

Quick Bio:

For almost two decades, Thomas Gelmi has been a coach, facilitator, and sparring partner supporting leaders and teams in their development at various levels and in numerous industries. He focuses on developing personal and interpersonal competence in leadership, teamwork, and customer contact.

For his practice, he draws on an extraordinary biography with exciting milestones, including a seven-year stint at Swissair. In his time leading and training cabin crews at 30,000 feet, he experienced first-hand how important a high level of personal and interpersonal competence is for effective human interaction. Additionally, he has many years of professional experience in various management positions and as a team leader and trained caregiver in accidents and other extreme situations.

Based in Switzerland, Thomas Gelmi works all across Europe and increasingly in North America, Africa, Asia, and Australia. His clients include global corporations as well as SMEs and private individuals. Thomas presently lives near Zurich.

Website: https://www.thomasgelmi.com/

Thomas Gelmi 0:02

If you ask yourself what went well today? The answer is often external. This happened; the boss was kind today, exceptionally, and my wife was nice and everything. But if you ask, what did I do well? What did I manage to do well? What was my contribution today? That's internal; that's really about me.

Doug Holt 0:23

Hey, guys, I'm so excited to have Thomas Gelmi on today, and I think Ralph Waldo Emerson once said, "What we all need the most is someone who can bring out the best in us." And this quote describes the impact of Thomas's work with his clients. We're going to talk about today's importance of personal development as a basis for successful leadership, teamwork, and customer relations. Thomas, thanks so much for being here.

Thomas Gelmi 0:53

Thank you for having me, Doug.

Doug Holt 0:55

Yes, there are so many things that we can talk about; we did the pre-call. And I think we could have talked all day during that. But what I want to start with is giving the listeners a little bit of background on how you got involved in coaching and executive leadership.

Thomas Gelmi 1:13

Okay, I'd be happy to do so; the initial impulse for me to get into coaching was being coached, as simple as that. So I was doing something completely different, and a friend of mine was enrolled in a coaching training program. And they had to bring someone in as a client for a training session for an exercise. So I volunteered, I got there, and I was at a point in my life where I didn't know where to go, should I go left or should I go right? I brought this as a topic to the coaching session, and I came up with clarity after 60 minutes. So I wasn't told what to do. That was the kickoff that made me look into coaching more deeply; I wanted to know that? And here I am doing this for a living with a lot of joy and passion.

Doug Holt 2:15

Excellent, you started as a guinea pig and getting tested on

Thomas Gelmi 2:22

That also started a tradition of only applying to people what I have experienced myself.

Doug Holt 2:30

Yes, that was one of the things I caught when you and I talked is often we see in the coaching world; you've been doing this a long time, too. There are two camps that I look at; it's people who market themselves as coaches yet don't eat their cooking. And there are people like yourself, who are not only doing coaching but also doing what you preach, right? You're getting coaching from other people. You're continuing to develop yourself and increase your learning and development.

Thomas Gelmi 3:00

I think that's an absolute necessity. It all has to do with trust; it's people's business. It's all about trust, and I mean, you quickly run into credibility issues if you don't walk the target. If you're coming across as someone who's just repeating what's in the books, or it's not coming really from the inside, it's not your essence. Talking, people pick up, people have sensitive antennae, they will notice.

Doug Holt 3:33

Yes, you can smell a fraud from a mile away. Right? Some people can fake it for a little bit, but eventually, the truth comes out.

Thomas Gelmi 3:41

Yeah.

Doug Holt 3:41

You take a different approach that I would say many executive coaches will take because you believe that it starts with the person and begins with the inside first. Can you speak a little bit about that?

Thomas Gelmi 3:54

Yeah, I'm convinced that wherever people want to or have to achieve something together, work together, And that's the case. Leadership is teamwork, collaboration, and customer interaction as in sales after-sales, internal-external customers. So there are many areas where this is important; people want to achieve something together. The key to success in these areas is connecting with others, truly connecting, really secure. Build and maintain authentic and genuine relationships, what I call interpersonal competence. And the basis for that needs to be a good relationship with yourself, Personal competence. Because how can you be an inspiring leader? How can you be a visionary leader? How can you radiate confidence in times of crisis as right Now? If you're not in a good connection with yourself in the right balance with yourself if you're all stressed out? So it all starts with the individual; sound leadership is good self-leadership.

Doug Holt 5:14

I love it, and I couldn't agree more. As a lot of our audience are also coaches coming in through this, did you always start with that philosophy? Or is that a philosophy that's evolved for you?

Thomas Gelmi 5:27

It has evolved. Yes. So what I did initially was what most people that are new to the business new to the coaching business do, I position myself with the services I was offering. So here I am, I'm a coach, I can offer one on one coaching, I can offer team coaching. And usually, the more I offer, the better because then there's probably something in there for anyone. My market is larger, it's bigger, which of course is not true. The more it's all about narrowing in and zooming in on your specific profile and your niche. Because you want to be sharp in your position, yeah, it was a shift over time, also, with some great coaches supporting me in that process. That led me to position myself not through the services but through the topics I work on with my clients. And that's the two main areas of personal competence, development, and developing interpersonal competence.

Doug Holt 6:43

Those are the most important areas, I would say.

Thomas Gelmi 6:45

Yeah, I would say, and it's vast, and it sounds like okay, two topics, but they are vast, there are so many subtopics in there.

Doug Holt 6:55

Absolutely. Let's talk about today; as we're recording this in the states COVID, it is still a big deal. And it's a big deal everywhere in Europe, where you're at is opening up right now. How does a coach like yourself, how are you pivoting and service people in these times where it's uncertain, and coaches are needed more than ever, the same time? We don't have that personal interaction like we did even six months ago?

Thomas Gelmi 7:23

Yeah, true. So I immediately started offering free support for anyone who might need it when we had the lockdown. Just because I thought it's not the moment to sell something now. This is the moment for mutual support. This is the moment for being human and offering support to whoever may need it. And yes, of course, there is still at least as much need for coaching out there now, if not more, I see rather, increasing potential and increasing demand. Simultaneously, as you mentioned, there's less possibility of meeting in person, which leads to the fact that most of my work is currently virtual and online, much more than before. I've already started working online many years ago, but most of my work was still face to face. And this big shift is now happening, which from a central European standpoint, brings us closer to where you and the US already are or have been for many years. Because coaching over the phone or online has been much more accepted and popular in the US or the whole of North America, as opposed to Europe. And we're now like catching up.

Doug Holt 9:01

Trends always change. Of course, I find the basics don't, right? You're delivering it just in a different medium. And you and I are right now talking, I'm in the western part of the United States, and you are in Europe. So there's a big difference, yet we're still able to connect. And I think many coaches and professionals use that barrier as a limiting belief that will stop them from moving forward.

Thomas Gelmi 9:27

Oh, yes. Of course, it's different. But it doesn't mean it's worse or is not as good as it's all a matter of how you see things. I think the key is really your ability and brings us to the self again, your ability to be mindfully present, to be fully present as in right now when I'm talking to you. I'm looking at you, and I'm focused on I'm here and over here and there. I am here now, and I'm not somewhere else in my mind that I think it is a bigger distraction than an electronic set of tools between you and me now. And I also think, the more comfortable we get with the technology. And with working like that, the less it is something that absorbs our attention. The more comfortable you get, the more at ease you are, the more it's just normal. Right?

Doug Holt 10:36

Yeah, like you're able to connect in such a deeper way with people from all over the place. Obviously, you could be coaching me in the US, and then you could turn around and coach somebody in South America, Europe; it allows the end participant to choose the best professional for them.

Thomas Gelmi 10:56

Right. And this is something that I see as a huge emerging opportunity to scale up the activities from local to global. Because as I've been working a lot of international work, over the last ten years, at least, I've been traveling to Southeast Asia to Australia, for leadership and sales development programs, to the US and Canada, the other end of the world, I've even done some work in Africa. But towards a real boost into international business or globalizing your business, there was always this hurdle of travel expenses and travel time, which is now off the table.

Doug Holt 11:47

Yeah.

Thomas Gelmi 11:48

It's just not a topic anymore. I just sent out a quote to Australia last week for a virtual leadership development program. So here we go. I think times have never been better to work globally for us as coaches or consultants.

Doug Holt 12:08

I love that perspective, and I think that shows a lot about your character, personally, as a coach and individual, because I think there's a lot of people out there, they're saying, "Ah, you know, coaching, saturated," maybe "I don't have the experience," "I can't travel so I can do corporate consulting, or coaching." And here you are flipping that on its head saying, "No, no, no, it's never been better. This is your time to differentiate yourself; this is your time to deliver to the people that need them most."

Thomas Gelmi 12:36

Yes, that's maybe also part of my nature, I have been born optimist, and I never change that habit. There's good in anything and everything. My principle is really to not go against what life is offering. You cannot choose the hats you're given, right? The hats or doubt, how do you say that when you play cards, right? But you can choose how to respond to it. And you can either resist the changes, say, "Ah, this shouldn't be happening." Being resistant and angry or frustrated or whatever, or you understand what you cannot change or control in the situation. And shift your focus of attention to what you can change and influence. And just go with it, go with it, and see what you can do with it. The only way to do it

Doug Holt 13:39

100% agree. There are always two options, right? At least. There's always usually three, to look at any situation. You get to decide based on that one option, that's not an option, two is a dilemma, three now you have the opportunity, they say, to decide that. As you're forecasting or future casting yourself and your business. How do you see things evolving as a coach, as a leader that you are over the next six months to a year? It's hard to put things in a five-year perspective these days, but six months to a year? Where do you see things going?

Thomas Gelmi 14:16

I have no idea. Yeah, I mean, that's a great question. But honestly, that's something we can only estimate or guess or assume, because based on what I said earlier that there's never probably never been a better time to expand the business on a global level. We have probably also never been living in more uncertain times. Now, I'm not sure if you are familiar with the term VUCA, the acronym VUCA. It stands for the five biggest challenges that companies and leaders in organizations have been facing over the last decade, I would say. V for volatility, so the speed of change, and instability, that's a word. U for uncertainty in almost all areas of life, increasing uncertainty, and planning ability. C for complexity and A for ambiguity and look it up; there is vast information out there. One of the answers to VUCA environments is being agile, your approach, so the whole agile movement is an answer to VUCA. And so if you ask me, where do I see myself in five years, I have no ideas, but I'm very curious.

Doug Holt 15:56

I like that.

Thomas Gelmi 15:58

My approach to dealing with this is not to set clear goals, and clear maybe intentions, yes, but no clear goals, as in smart goals. It's taught in management schools because you can work with smart goals, specific, measurable, etc. in a predictable environment, in a step more or less stable and predictable environment. That makes sense. I'm here, here's the goal, and now how do I get there? But in an ever-changing VUCA environment, the only thing you can realistically do is always just the next step. It's like walking through dense fog, right? You got to go for a walk and said, you can only just see your next step and then make your next step. And then you reassess the situation. Okay, where am I now? What's the next step?

Doug Holt 16:58

Yeah, I would almost say that you could take that same approach to any time period in life and for anybody because there's always uncertainty around the corner in any business or any individual's life. Because you're dealing with other people, relationships are always uncertain, to a different degree, depending on the stories we tell ourselves. And you can look at this.

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Now, when you're working with corporate clients, I can imagine if it hasn't been pre-framed well. They're expecting kind of your typical corporate speech coming in through here. Like, we're going to set our KPIs for our goals, and we're going to break these down, we have some motivational aspect to it, and then he's going to leave, and we're left by ourselves. How do you differentiate that and bring in the personal aspect to it, and what's the response you get?

Thomas Gelmi 18:49

Okay, so if I understand your question correctly, we almost always start in the corporate environment when coaching with a clear set of goals for the coaching. That often around KPIs about behavioral change very much, but always related to the business. How can I become more decisive, more assertive, more effective as a leader, better communicator, etc.? So there are usually always business motives and business objectives to start with. Then what usually happens is that within the first two or three sessions, depending on the person, we get very personal and not necessarily because I steer the process in that direction, because I'm trying to manipulate or influence people to talk about personal stuff. Nope. Just because they come up with personal things that are on their mind or that just you know that keep them awake at night. Because things are much more interconnected than many think, so yes, we start off talking about the business. Yes, we start off talking about becoming a better leader. And yes, we end up talking about how it's going in the family? At home? Yeah, I was going with the wife and the kids and the dog? Usually, you improve in one area, improving the other areas.

Doug Holt 20:31

Absolutely. I recently had a conversation with the CEO of a Fortune 100 company. And he was telling me, "Doug, I can compartmentalize things very well. I can separate my work from my personal life." And as the conversation evolved, of course, the truth started coming out. having problems at home, the relationship in the marriage, what's causing stress and anxiety at work causing him to work longer, you know, the story.

Thomas Gelmi 20:59

Yes, I had a client calling me secretly calling me asking me or telling me, "Whatever you did, or whatever you're doing with my husband, I don't know what you're doing with him. But keep going. Don't stop." I have this beautiful example of a participant in a program I did in the US. It was a few years back two parts, a few weeks in between. And it was about effective communication and leadership, and then sales, etc. And the second part, he approaches me during the coffee break. And he said, "Hey, Thomas, this saved my marriage." Usually is the other way around with these things. And so he said, "No, look, I sent myself a reminder." So he set himself a reminder that popped up every morning saying, talk less and listen more to improve in the business context, in his working environment. Interestingly enough, his wife was the first person to notice a difference. And it changed the situation. And the relationships are nice stories. That's a reason to get up in the morning.

Doug Holt 22:26

It is fantastic. I mean, you're able to not only change people's lives, I always say, as coaches we people let us play in their sandbox, so to speak, especially when it comes to business. Yeah, we get to play with them, And for those listening to the audio version, you're applying to your phone talking about the alarms being set on the phone. And not just a really good tool for people to set reminders. And it could be basic things like you said, talk less, listen more.

Thomas Gelmi 22:55

Exactly. In my experience, this is one of the most important aspects of lasting behavioral change to remind yourself of what you want to change daily. Because people come out of workshops and training and seminars and coaching sessions with great insights, great learnings, and clear intentions, and then they go to work again. And by 9:30, the next day, the daily business has washed away the best intentions like a tsunami rolling over them. And then by the end of the month, they remembered something that took away from coaching; what was it? I don't remember. So that's why the remainder, the anchor for the new intentions, is so simple. It could be anything that could be a reminder on your phone or posted somewhere.

Doug Holt 23:56

Yeah, we are forming new neural pathways, and you're reading or reinforcing neural pathways. Our sponsor of the show is Biocybernaut. What they do is train brainwaves, So it's very similar. With these reminders, you're able to do it and form these new habits, neural pathways. And in my experience, the best way of getting rid of a bad habit is not to focus on the bad habit but to create a new, good habit. And you'll have so much room for habits in your life.

Thomas Gelmi 24:25

Exactly. Because what you focus on will grow.

Doug Holt 24:28

Yes.

Thomas Gelmi 24:28

What you resist persists, right? So that's why, It's a bit similar, like what I said earlier, that's a situation, there's a crisis, and a pandemic. You focus on the problems it's causing on the limitations that you're experiencing because of it. You could or are you accepting that there are limitations and that it has an impact on your life, and you just really accept it. This doesn't mean you resonate, but you just accept it because it can change anyway. And then you refocus your attention on what you can do.

Doug Holt 25:11

This is the perfect formula, And as we're recording this, and I'm involved with Biocybernaut, we have a waiting list there. It's maxed out of capacity with a waiting list. And then you could have the same level of business, that's just doom and gloom and talking about recoiling their business, and again, to your point, you get what you focus on, and to focus on growth and opportunity, you're going to find it. But if you focus on the doom and gloom, and you're the United States, we're going back almost into a lockdown situation, it seems in some areas, then that's your only focus, then you're going to recoil. And that's what you're going to attract.

Thomas Gelmi 25:51

Absolutely. And the challenge in all of this is that it's quite easy to understand what we're talking about, it's quite easy to understand. The challenge is that as human beings, we have this what psychology calls negative bias. It's a phenomenon that in our perception, how we perceive the world, we have a strong tendency to focus much more on things we consider negatives, we perceive as negative as things that are positive. And it's very old, it's a very old instinctive way of perception because if you think back of our ancestors who went out hunting every day, they have to focus much more on potential threats than on the fact that there's a blue sky and the sun is shining, Who cares?! So there's this, the radar is calibrated to potential threats. And that's why we have this yet more challenge than anything, the problems and the challenges we perceive. And the limitations are like a magnet for our attention; the attention is automatically drawn there. So to live by, we just said the focus on the positive, the opportunities, possibilities. It takes a conscious effort, and it takes a conscious decision, because it goes a bit against nature, our nature. So it takes a conscious decision daily. Like, what am I going to focus on today? Or by the end of the day? What did I do well today? Tap yourself on the shoulder, because I'm sure you can recall all the things that did not go well. But you did well, and went well, what you can be grateful for. You will, and you may want to have to look at it consciously. There's a nice saying, and I think it's an Asian program. I'm not sure. That says, "One falling tree makes more noise than a whole growing forest."

Doug Holt 28:09

I never heard that before, but I like that.

Thomas Gelmi 28:12

That nails it right? one thing that went wrong today. What are you thinking about when you are trying to fall asleep?

Doug Holt 28:19

Yeah, he sticks with it? One of the things you talked about, and you're talking about anchoring, right, when you're tapping yourself on the shoulder, for those listening to this that aren't familiar with anchoring, can you tell us a little bit about that?

Thomas Gelmi 28:32

Yeah, you put you in a so-called somatic anchor. So you connect an emotional state to a physical or sensory impulse. We all know that we have all experienced that you walk through a mall, for example. And you walk past the perfume shop, and there's this scent in the air. And here comes the memory of this particular special person that this scent reminds you of, right, it's right there, and you feel the emotion. And then you go around the corner, and there's a music store, and you hear this one song that brings up a whole collection of memories. Right? That's these anchors on voluntary or involuntary placed anchors. But you can also do that voluntarily. For example, I have a client we had a coaching process around executive presence, increasing, improving her executive presence. She could get herself into the state, the emotional state, and the mindset where she feels powerful, present. And she connected this emotional state to a little stone, a small, a nice little stone that she liked very much. And so she keeps carrying this stone with her in her pocket. And whenever she feels insecure or in preparation for an important presentation, for example, an important meeting, she picks the stone in her hand. And the stone acts as an anchor to bring her or help her get into this state of more presence.

Doug Holt 30:35

I'm a big fan of physical anchors, kind of like you said tap yourself on the shoulder because you don't know what you're going to have the stone or not—limiting any barriers to entry on there. One of the things I also thought was interesting and talking about is that you speak English, and we speak four different languages. Is that right?

Thomas Gelmi 30:57

Yes. Well, five, if you consider the Swiss-German language.

Doug Holt 31:02

Sure. What are those languages?

So my mother tongue is German. My father tongue, so to speak, is Italian. When my parents met and fell in love, and I was born, they spoke English because otherwise, they wouldn't have understood each other. So that's why I have the English in the background all the time. French is the fourth, I learned at school the basics, and then I use it in my work and develop the French in my work. So these are the four languages. And Swiss German is just a very strong German dialect.

Okay. Very cool. Yeah, as we look at this, I mean, the podcast style is the successful coach. And I think for listeners, this is just another element that you're able to bring to your repertoire when working with somebody is connecting with them and connecting with them. And language is so important, as we know. Do you find that to be something useful?

Thomas Gelmi 32:10

Absolutely. I mean, any language is a door opener. And if you work in a corporation, corporate customers, and you can offer your services in different languages, with the international and intercultural diversity we have nowadays, in the organizations, at least here in Europe. It's a big, big plus. Yes,

Doug Holt 32:37

Absolutely. What are the things do you think makes it? In your opinion, Thomas, what makes a successful coach versus somebody who's just dabbling?

What do you mean by dabbling? Never heard of that.

Sorry. Dabbling means, just kind of trying out testing the waters? Maybe got a client here doing it as on the side?

Thomas Gelmi 32:59

That's a good question. I think experiences are a big element there And being confident. Being confident about what you are and what you can bring to the table as value for those who coach. And for me, being a great coach is all about being of service and facilitating the development process, and supporting the development process that is happening, unleashing the potential, or referring to the Ralph Waldo Emerson quote, you stated at the beginning, being the one who brings out the best in others. And that doesn't necessarily mean you have to have all the knowledge and know so many things you can then tell them. Now the coaching is not about telling people what to do or who to be. It's about helping them discover in the sense of uncovering what's there. What's there already, or as Sir John Whitmore, said, who is a pioneer in the coaching industry, "A big oak tree has already in its seed, the whole potential, everything it needs to become a big Strong Oaktree." It just needs the ideal condition. There's nothing that needs to be added. Right? Bringing out somebody's full potential and helping someone blossom in their environment is rarely ever about adding something on top. Many have added enough already.

Doug Holt 35:02

Well, I want to tell everybody that's listening to this. One of the things that I love about you and why you and I connected so well is that your passion just increased dramatically; we are talking about releasing somebody else's potential. I mean, your physiology changed, your energy changed. And to me, that's one thing that makes us successful coaches love what they do. Loving and loves a strong word, but love that the ability to bring out that in the best in other people. And you do.

Thomas Gelmi 35:33

Yeah, that's not true only for being a coach. I think that's true for everybody. Yeah. Love what you do and do what you love. Either one, either one is okay. Either one is okay. Not everybody, I should think everybody should have the privilege to do what they love. But realistically speaking, not everybody has the opportunity. Many have to find a job and do any job they can get. And in addition to that, a second and the third one, especially in the US, as far as I have experienced and heard and seen. And then you have not much choice, right? But you still have the option of deciding to love what you do. And you can make that decision for anything you do. And it changes the whole experience.

Doug Holt 36:35

Back to the eternal optimist, which I liked, and good find the greatness and what it is finding out what you enjoy.

Thomas Gelmi 36:43

And find the greatness in yourself. Because most people, the inner critic, the inner voice in their head that kicks you every time something goes wrong. "See? You did it again". This inner critic is so loud for many. It's such a shame because it's the same negative bias that I mentioned earlier that affects the external world's perception and self-perception. And many people have no idea how great they are.

Doug Holt 37:21

To someone listening to this right now, who is going okay, you're, you're talking about me, I'm negative around myself, my inner critic, as we all are, but what's one thing that they could do now to help them move forward to the next level?

Thomas Gelmi 37:36

Okay, sit down, take a piece of paper and start thinking about and writing down everything you have achieved in your life so far because you've made it to the point where you are today, you made it up to that point; it's a success already, whatever that looks like, you're there. You're still there, And you made it to the point where you were. So how does that look? What were your achievements so far? And not only the big, shiny success, like situations? But also, how did I get through a crisis? How did I come out the other end? How did I manage to do that? And how did I deal with misfortune and problems and difficulties? Did I stay on the ground? Or did I get back up, dust myself off, and continue? Things like that, and it's all a matter of becoming more aware of who you are. And not just the bias self-perception, really a more realistic self-concept and self-perception, self-awareness. So that's one thing initially to start it off. And then I would recommend anyone to make it a habit of sitting down for five to 10 minutes every day, initially, in the evening, and just write down the questions I mentioned already. What did I do well today? What am I happy about? You can also ask the second question, what went way too well today? But if you ask yourself, what went well, today, the answer is often external. Right? Well, this happened; the boss was kind today, exceptionally, and my wife was nice and everything. But if you ask, what did I do well? What did I manage to do well? What was my contribution today? That's a term that's really about me, and many shy away from that or find it difficult because there's like a resistance there that wants to prevent you from becoming arrogant or too much of an inflated ego. But realistically speaking, there's not much danger in that, right? Worst cases, you end up somewhere in the middle in a more balanced self-perception. And it may take an effort. In the beginning, it may be challenging or even difficult because we're just not used to it. Nobody shows us how this works. But over time, and you mentioned that earlier, over time, your brain will build new neuronal connections, or in other words, you're building the habit of seeing things like that. And then at some point, you've noticed that you see the good in the situation's; you see the good in yourself just habitually. And there you have it integrated.

Doug Holt 41:06

Beautifully. Where I think people will find awesome threes. Yes, the people around him like the wife that called you; they see it before you even see it. All of a sudden, you're a little nicer. You're a little happier.

Thomas Gelmi 41:20

Yes.

Doug Holt 41:22

Well, Thomas, you've been so gracious with your time and getting to share everything with everybody. For those that would like to learn more about you or reach out and further questions. What's the best way for them to do that?

Thomas Gelmi 41:34

Visit my website; there's more information about myself. Visit my LinkedIn profile, connect with me on LinkedIn on Facebook. drop me a line, and we can have a meeting, a Zoom meeting, and chatting over coffee together

Doug Holt 41:50

In virtual coffee. I always love that.

Thomas Gelmi 41:52

Yeah, exactly.

Doug Holt 41:55

Well, all those links will be in the show notes. Guys. Please connect with Thomas. He's amazing. The real deal, which I love seeing your passion, my friends, so thank you so much for being here.

Thomas Gelmi 42:05

Thank you, Doug. Very much appreciated. All the best to you.

Absolutely.

Doug Holt 42:10

Thank you for joining us at the successful coach podcast. Please hit like and subscribe so we can bring you more great interviews like these. Until next time, have an amazing day.